Racing through Social Enterprise Day with men with moustaches

Latzo lorverly prizes at Livity, Brixton 

For the last few years, Social Enterprise Day has been a real celebration for our world. It's a day when a great many social enterprises make the effort to showcase some or all of what they do. At SEL, we did our bit with a Guardian-supported launch of Spin-out and deliver, our latest publication on new forms of public service providers that go it alone to focus on social value, and an open day at the SEL offices.

At the youth and media company and SEL member, Livity, CEO Sam Conniff had Super Mario in and some guy in a red hat from the Cabinet Office to announce this organisation has organised youth consultation across the UK with Nintendo. This will co-design practical ideas that will make a real and lasting difference to young people. Nintendo intends to start piloting these co-created solutions for and with young people in their own communities as soon as next year.

Over the other side of town, SEL Director June O'Sullivan of LEYF gave this year's Margaret Horn Lecture at the RSA on LEYF research that explores social franchising as a model to tackle the challenges of child poverty. Read her lecture: 'Child poverty: Why social franchising is a giant step in the right direction'.  This event was chaired by Matthew Taylor, chief executive at the RSA.

Spin-out and deliver at the Guardian

Our own Guardian event sparked some really good debate and Matthew Booth, Head of Policy at Ealing Council was fantastic. He explained what was happening at the council and his frank and enthusiastic approach was a breath of fresh air. Participants got stuck in and a good discussion followed that I really enjoyed. As ever Andrew Burnell of City Health Care Partnership was on great form. Andrew is on the board of the Transition Institute (TI) and is as good an advertisement of public sector spin-outs that believe they are the next generation of public servants as you are ever likely to get. He was sporting his Movember moustache which, while impressive in a challenging facial hair sort of way, was no match for the tash of Super Mario. (Movember is an initiative that encourages men to grow moustaches in November to highlight issues and fundraising around men's health.)

Andrew will also be speaking at the TI launch of Social value ethos, its first publication on Monday at GLL facilities in Marshall Street, Westminster. Nick Hurd, the Minister for Civil Society (as seen above and a person who started following me, @aogdennewton on Twitter yesterday), and Sir Stephen Bubb, CEO of ACEVO and TI board member, will also both be there.

Hearing about social enterprise

Back to Social Enterprise Day. I left the Guardian to race back to SEL offices where the staff had done a lovely job smartening us up for a social enterprise drop-in day. We had no idea how many would come, so were chuffed when over 50 social entrepreneurs came through our doors. Mei Hui, SEL's Senior Business Advisor, gave a presentation to over 30 of our guests and the rest met SEL staff and enjoyed some networking.

I had to break of to do a Live Guardian Q & A on, ironically the future of business support for social enterprise following the sad closure of our sister organisation RISE in the South West. During that discussion there were plenty of comments to the effect that everything we do should be paid for at the point of contact. Sitting in on Mei's presentation and listening to the comments from participants, I was struck by how much advice those new social entrepreneurs needed and how utterly unable the vast majority were able to pay for it. In this harsh new economic climate, it is hard to think those people are not our audience. After all, wasn't supporting community development through enterprise why we were set up in the first place?

When Mei, Jillian and I shut up shop at around 7.30pm, we congratulated ourselves on an excellent social enterprise day and wondered about next year: what would the world of social enterprise look like then?

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Series: Live Q&As

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Live Q&A: Support for social enterprises, Thursday 17 November, 1-3pm

Is the fall of RiSE a sign of things to come?

• •  reddit this

• David Mills
• Guardian Professional, Monday 14 November 2011 15.29 GMT
• Article history

What do you want and need from your regional and national support bodies? Photograph: Jon Super/AP

The closure of rise, the south-west based body set up to develop and support social enterprise, has raised questions about the future for social enterprise support bodies.

In this live Q&A, we'll be asking:

• What do social enterprises - and those considering starting up social enterprises - need from support organisations?

• Does the rise of social media and other sources of online support mean that regional and national support bodies are less important?

• How can the surviving regional bodies survive and thrive in a difficult economic climate?

Tell us what you want and need from your regional and national support bodies. If you work for a regional or national body, log in and tell us what you're doing to serve those who need your help.

Also, if you'd like to leave a question, please do so in the comments section below, or come back to ask it live - and follow the debate - on Thursday 17 November from 1pm to 3pm.

Do get in touch with Gines Haro Pastor for more details.

Expert panel

Allison Ogden-Newton - Chief executive, Social Enterprise London

Allison is the chief executive of Social Enterprise London, London's leading agency supporting and promoting social enterprise, the business model for the 21st Century, throughout the Capital and Internationally. Last year SEL assisted thousands of social enterprises in developing their businesses, got hundreds of young people into jobs and worked in 9 countries.

Allison has successfully promoted social enterprise to a wide spectrum of decision makers, raising awareness and creating a community of support for future development through highly effective networking and strong strategic partnerships.

The closure of RISE

From the RISE website

Like everyone I have been shocked by the announcement of the closure of RISE, the body in the SouthWest set up to support the development of social enterprise. This is a devastating loss. I haven't had a chance to talk to their ceo, my friend Lucy Findlay, who understandably is rather preoccupied, so I don't have all the relevant information, but I do know a thing or two about the challenges facing social enterprise support and it is time we all faced facts.

This Government has not prioritised the support of social enterprise business development in anything other than finance, by which I mean the actual money not help with working out if you need it or what you could do with it. So whilst money could be argued as the most important element of business growth I would also argue that for the majority of our members, making the most of the kind of finance that is on offer is not something they feel they can do at present, for now they want basic business advice, the support of their peers and access to the wider social enterprise community, and they have no money. In short they need what is referred to in our world as finance readiness, something SEL has been offering for 15 years and RISE for nearly as long. It is interesting to note that where social enterprise development agencies have been longest that is where the density of social enterprises is at its greatest. Chicken or egg?

I know its not fashionable to say this, but is grant funding for social enterprises or their development really so terrible? I see no contradiction between social enterprise agencies making money through trading to deliver social impact and being in receipt of grant, nor have I ever thought support bodies must be self sustaining through fees to be legitimate. Social enterprise creates wealth in the most deprived communities and their social impact often provides the Government with a healthy return on its investment which must be worth making, no? The idea that such things as research and policy development for instance can be supported through income generation is simply not practical in my view. The RDA's have gone, and in London so has the Government Office and the majority of London Councils grant money as well, we have said goodbye to the wonderful Future Jobs Fund, and since the introduction of the Work Programme, work creation projects for most smaller providers have mostly gone too. All of this can be multiplied when you also add the European funding that can not be drawn down due the absence of matched funding. In short the cuts have been eye watering. 

SEL will survive, but not because we are better than RISE, nor because our members are more prolific or loyal than RISE members. No, we will survive because we have long since worked on adaptive relationships with clients through our consultancy, welcomed collaboration from private companies who sponsor our work in exchange for commercial access to our members, and have re shaped the organisation to offer only that which can be bought and paid for. The result is we are much smaller, you may have noticed, we do a lot less policy, but I like to think we are still perfectly formed.

I mourn the loss of RISE, I wish I had been able to do something to prevent it from falling over. I know some of its staff and have always been impressed by the quality, creativity and commitment of their approach, I am very sorry that social enterprise will lose that expertise. RISE was the best of us and it will be missed, especially by me. I can only hope that this will make those remaining work harder to support one another so that social enterprises get infrastructure that delivers growth, and we can be confident in saying we can not do that alone.

On sticking together to work out which way to go

Adversity can bring out the best in people and having spent today in Birmingham with my fellow directors of England's social enterprise regions, I am glad to say some of the best people are in social enterprise. Having not found a good time to mention this, I was keeping quiet about my growing feeling that social enterprise has started to sing a little off key.

If I had a hammer

As the heavens open, again, I think of Noah, the patron saint of forward planners. Even without Mr Fish, those of us working with Government can read the signs.  Only strong swimmers need apply.

So if you can hear the sounds of busy hammers its the strategists determined to keep their head above water by building vehicles fit for the new era. Anyone labouring under the misapprehension that the status quo will prevail should check their water wings for holes, cos they're gonna need 'em.

I do think a lot of wonderful social enterprises will go. Those too small to respond to the meta programs the Government are constructing, and too bespoke to fit into the new o/s era. I don't know about you but I have never looked good in o/s, and an o/s society seems counterintuitive to Big Society to me.

But it is possible for some to construct a mighty ark. I had a meeting with the fantastic Sue Slipman yesterday, Director of the Foundation Trust Network, and she has some top tips on boxing and coxing for success. Sue and I had a really good explorative talk about her model and what makes it so perfect for the times. Sue helped develop my thinking on hybridisation and its profound relevance for social enterprise. As I said to Sue, and to anyone who will listen, the strength of social enterprise is in its ability to maximise social value in any commercial transaction. For me Foundation Hospitals are not only social enterprises but bloody good examples of it. What we need are more of the same and there is a high probability that if we are clear in our thinking and articulate in our approach we will have the opportunity to strut our stuff.

I had lunch on Monday with Stephen Bubb ceo of acevo the wonderful organisation I have the privelidge to be Vice Chair of. I was horribly late because getting around London can be a joke, which upset both of us. Stephen and I really enjoy one another's company. Stephen is the consumate advocate who does not take himself seriously, which is precisely why he has been spoofed, and why he is very good company. Oh we do have a laugh, although we got quickly to the very serious business of working out how to offer direction to our movement when all but the rhetoric seems disasterous for small, local community based groups. As Stephen has said in his blog, the Ministerial visits are sure to dry up with the funding.

Yesterday I was met by Giles Wilkes, Vince Cable's Special Adviser, to talk about the plight of the social enterprise regional support bodies. Giles confirmed what I suspected, which is that in closing the RDAs there was no intention to deconstruct the social enterprise support infrastructure. Giles could not of course make any undertaking but did say he would make enquiries and see how the land lay. Sitting in BIS for what must be the hundreth time I was struck at actually how many times I have had that conversation. In one form or another I have explained to at least four Secretary's of State, a dozen Ministers and a bus load of officials how our fledgling movement has grown sometimes in spite of Government "support". We have survived to date because we are clever and able and we have members who respect and need us. But we could have done more with a leg up from BIS and if they want unprecidented social enterprise growth in the public sector, we of the supra local networks, would be a very good place to start.

Maybe its time to see a fully fledged return of social enterprise to BIS?

On your marks, get set........

I had my mug shot in the Society Guardian today, looking, quite frankly like I’d been at the cooking sherry. Having said that, it was nice to have some coverage for the speech I gave on the role social enterprise can play in public service reform at the Guardian’s brilliant summit last week.

This week started with a focus on the new Social Enterprise Mark. Developed by RISE (our sister organisation in the South West) and launched nationally in partnership between RISE and the Coalition, it's started to make its presence felt immediately. Instantly SEL members were e-mailing me with questions and statements of support or criticism. My answer to everyone is time will tell. The thing I love about our movement is that it is dynamic, ever changing; no one's and yet everyone’s intellectual property. If social enterprises grow and sell more as a result of carrying the Mark I’ll be more pleased than anyone. That and the further promotion of the social enterprise movement is my hope for what the Mark can achieve. In the meantime let’s keep the movement growing, counting people interested in delivering positive social impact through business as 'in' and not 'out' shall we?

I came home even later than usual tonight. I counted over 240 emails sent today, mostly on behalf of members, to those who need to know how they can support London's stunning social enterprises. I often feel like a pain in the arse to the great and good, but as I keep saying, that's the job.

Last night Chris and I went to the school parents evening for our eldest, Joe. We heard some lovely things about a hard working, inquisitive and energetic young man (13). Now there’s a chap quick of the mark.